Honest disagreements of conscience around the faith never dissuade nonbelievers. It's our sins and vices especially expressed toward one another that are so unhelpful. Perhaps the anathemas could be rescinded by Orthodox and RC; perhaps we could stop using our cultural dominance to discriminate against RC and Orthodox (in the USA at least). The idea of Christians waring against one another finds very little justification anywhere.
What we have in common is trinitarian theology (Nicea), anthropology, epistemology, virtue ethics, and a historical doctrine of God. On just those we can travel a long way.
Thank you for commenting -- and I agree. We have much more in common than we have in disagreement; and much more of our fundamentals as well. When we disagree, let it be in a spirit of iron sharpening iron, as a witness to others.
Super interesting article. I have several thoughts!
1. At the beginning of the article you asked if your Catholic and Orthodox friends viewed you as a sister in Christ. I can’t speak for my orthodox friends, but this is what Lumen Gentium has to say about non-Catholic Christians
“The Church recognizes that in many ways she is linked with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter. For there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ.”
So if a Catholic doesn’t view you as a fellow Christian, they aren’t following the official teaching of the church!
2. I agree that we should provide a united front to the outside world, but I’m not sure I agree we should just focus on reaching those who don’t know Christ (although I do agree that should be the primary focus - when someone doesn’t know the light of the world then their life tends to be a stumbling from darkness to darkness).
Maybe this is a difference between Catholics and Protestants, but do you believe there is something Catholics lack about the faith, and it is important to want to share that with them even if you are brothers and sisters and Christ? And if so; what would that be?
Because many Catholics feel this way about Protestants. We love the sacraments and the tradition that we believe has been handed onto us and it makes us sad that our Protestant brothers and sisters, who have genuine beautiful faiths, are missing out on integral aspects of what Jesus wanted them to have. So there is an impetus to want to share that with our Protestant friends like we want to share a beautiful piece of art or a particularly good film, and that requires addressing the whole range of Protestant concerns about Catholicism.
1.) Thank you for your comments and for including the Lumen Gentium, brother! I tire of hearing Protestants say that Catholics are not Christians and vice versa.
2.) I didn't mean to suggest that we should solely focus on non-Christians and ignore edifying our brothers in Christ, identifying heresies, and seeking Truth amidst internal disagreements. However, I do think that nonbelievers should be the primary focus of an apologist (particularly a lay apologist who doesn't have the theological training and nuanced understanding of sectarian conflict that a clergy might), as the stakes are much higher when it's a question of hell vs. heaven rather than heaven vs. purgatory or just heaven.
I'm not sure I would say that the Catholics lack something in their faith; I do see beauty in the sacraments, which is why we practice baptism and the Eucharist (obviously not the full seven and not with a belief in transubstantiation). But the Orthodox hold to the seven sacraments and yet a schism still tore the East and West, so there are much more fundamental theological and political differences that I won't dive into here, despite how much I may admire traditional liturgy or Orthodox mysticism, for example. As a crude summary, most Protestants don't see many core Catholic practices (such as praying to Mary or the Petrine supremacy) as adequately supported by the Bible.
There's so much rich history underlying these schisms and it isn't my goal to begin a Catholic vs. Protestant debate; just to say that I acknowledge Catholics and Orthodox as brethren in Christ and yet don't agree with 100% of their Biblical interpretations (as they don't agree with 100% of mine!). It's very Protestant to say that we agree on the "essentials," but when evangelizing to a nonbeliever, that's what I hope to focus on together... and in the meantime, I pray for clarity on the rest.
Honest disagreements of conscience around the faith never dissuade nonbelievers. It's our sins and vices especially expressed toward one another that are so unhelpful. Perhaps the anathemas could be rescinded by Orthodox and RC; perhaps we could stop using our cultural dominance to discriminate against RC and Orthodox (in the USA at least). The idea of Christians waring against one another finds very little justification anywhere.
What we have in common is trinitarian theology (Nicea), anthropology, epistemology, virtue ethics, and a historical doctrine of God. On just those we can travel a long way.
Thank you for commenting -- and I agree. We have much more in common than we have in disagreement; and much more of our fundamentals as well. When we disagree, let it be in a spirit of iron sharpening iron, as a witness to others.
Super interesting article. I have several thoughts!
1. At the beginning of the article you asked if your Catholic and Orthodox friends viewed you as a sister in Christ. I can’t speak for my orthodox friends, but this is what Lumen Gentium has to say about non-Catholic Christians
“The Church recognizes that in many ways she is linked with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter. For there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ.”
So if a Catholic doesn’t view you as a fellow Christian, they aren’t following the official teaching of the church!
2. I agree that we should provide a united front to the outside world, but I’m not sure I agree we should just focus on reaching those who don’t know Christ (although I do agree that should be the primary focus - when someone doesn’t know the light of the world then their life tends to be a stumbling from darkness to darkness).
Maybe this is a difference between Catholics and Protestants, but do you believe there is something Catholics lack about the faith, and it is important to want to share that with them even if you are brothers and sisters and Christ? And if so; what would that be?
Because many Catholics feel this way about Protestants. We love the sacraments and the tradition that we believe has been handed onto us and it makes us sad that our Protestant brothers and sisters, who have genuine beautiful faiths, are missing out on integral aspects of what Jesus wanted them to have. So there is an impetus to want to share that with our Protestant friends like we want to share a beautiful piece of art or a particularly good film, and that requires addressing the whole range of Protestant concerns about Catholicism.
1.) Thank you for your comments and for including the Lumen Gentium, brother! I tire of hearing Protestants say that Catholics are not Christians and vice versa.
2.) I didn't mean to suggest that we should solely focus on non-Christians and ignore edifying our brothers in Christ, identifying heresies, and seeking Truth amidst internal disagreements. However, I do think that nonbelievers should be the primary focus of an apologist (particularly a lay apologist who doesn't have the theological training and nuanced understanding of sectarian conflict that a clergy might), as the stakes are much higher when it's a question of hell vs. heaven rather than heaven vs. purgatory or just heaven.
I'm not sure I would say that the Catholics lack something in their faith; I do see beauty in the sacraments, which is why we practice baptism and the Eucharist (obviously not the full seven and not with a belief in transubstantiation). But the Orthodox hold to the seven sacraments and yet a schism still tore the East and West, so there are much more fundamental theological and political differences that I won't dive into here, despite how much I may admire traditional liturgy or Orthodox mysticism, for example. As a crude summary, most Protestants don't see many core Catholic practices (such as praying to Mary or the Petrine supremacy) as adequately supported by the Bible.
There's so much rich history underlying these schisms and it isn't my goal to begin a Catholic vs. Protestant debate; just to say that I acknowledge Catholics and Orthodox as brethren in Christ and yet don't agree with 100% of their Biblical interpretations (as they don't agree with 100% of mine!). It's very Protestant to say that we agree on the "essentials," but when evangelizing to a nonbeliever, that's what I hope to focus on together... and in the meantime, I pray for clarity on the rest.